Palm strikes is a good subject to look into. I think everyone here should experement with the idea.
The way I came to the idea was by punching the heavy bag. I would go to the gym and put on my bag gloves and pound away, like usual. Then, I thought, in a fight, we don't use gloves, so maybe I should try it with out. So, I laid in a solid Hook punch and skinned the **** out of my knuckles and my wrist wasnt feel'in right. There was a bit of blood on my knuckles and the skin was very tender. Even if I put my gloves back on, it would still hurt like a bitch to hook the bag. So, I got into my "ready position" and palm struck the bag *THWAP!*... and I did another and another, I rocked that bag with no pain at all. So, my thinking was, I can't even Hook Punch a Heavy bag, with bare knuckles... I mean, its somewhat soft and flat, how the heck do I expect to crash my jagged knuckles into someones jagged jaw, or miss and hit a solid skull. Solid bone is very hard, you see Thai fighters and even Karate fighters busting bricks and baseball bats with thier shins, some Karate guys break brick with thier heads!
So, experiement using your palm, and you'll see what I'm talking about. After your experiment on the heavy bag, try lightly hooking odd objects, such as walls, tree's, the sharp end of doors, chairs... hell, give your monitor a punch! haha! Once you hook punched these objects, try hooking with your palm, you will feel a difference. You will also notice that your Hook Punch isnt 100% accurate as you like it to be and you will hit these objects below your knuckles, and that hurts the most! Pain is a great teacher! Evil smile Also, I don't want to wreck your learning experience, and hand this info on a silver platter, but you will learn how to adjust your Palm Hook for better speed and power, even more so then a punch... plus, you will hit even harder, when you find out there is no pain involved. I call it, the One Inch Palm Hook.
how much do you train to condition your hands?
I agree with what you say, It just reminded me that I should look into ways of conditioning my wrists and fists.
Continually playing with myself just doesn't seem to be helping!
"Continually playing with myself just doesn't seem to be helping!" Hahaha!!!!
Well, I would say my knuckles are conditioned fairly well. I punch a lot. Also, I used to train in Hung-Gar gung-fu and I would break boards on a regular basis. Even then, you still skin your knuckles up and get that tenderness.
What I'm saying is that we all have certain "tools" that are better for the job. If you want to break baseball bats (legs), then condition your shins and kick. If you want to Hook, in extream close range, try an elbow (Elbows are naturally conditioned). If you want to Hook at head hieght from midrange, with minimal damage to yourself, use a Palm Hook.
Even boxers sprain or break bones in thier hands and they have thier hands wrapped up and gloved. They are pro's with years upon years of fighting experience. There are too many bones, ligaments and joints in your hand, the chances of injury are high.
Tomorrow, if you can Hook Punch a heavy bag or somthing hard, like a tree,with out pain, then thats awesome, stick with your technique. If not, then you can spend a few month deadening your nerves in your hand and punch it fairly hard with out injury, but you better keep up your conditioning routine, once you stop, the feeling comes back. Or, you can Palm Hook, feel less pain and with practice, your palms will become conditioned, if you stopped training for 1 year, you can come back and still Palm Hook with power and little pain.
I dont know man, it's up to you to find what works the best. Thats the great thing about JKD and being an indivdual. Experience is the best teacher.
Boxers wrap there hands to deture damege . That would delay training. They when in the ring with gloves. Have to hit much more then say a street fight. A canvas bag is rough . And then add less conditioned hands. Yes it skins the knuckles. It takes a while to build up the knuckles hand and wrist. Thats part of the training though. Palm strikes Sure they are good when they get in. But even there you can get a injury. The only sure thing is training and condtioning. And this helps but will not stop. But in a real fight. You fight and worry about pain later. Most all street fights will not last but a short time. And The truth is most people after they mature .May never have a fight. Or just very few. But sure test what will be a better tool for you the person. But it has to be developed to reduce injury there also.
It always suprises me when people make comparisons with bags and human skull. the bag absorbs alot of your power and bends causing your wrists to bend and hurt due to the impact. The skull is harder and less likely to bend. the impacty is different. Also it is shaped differently, and has differing tissue. I am running away with myself. Suffice to say I look at bag training differently to hitting someone in the face.
Anyway the reason why your wrists hurt is because when your fist hits the bag you have not taken into account the shape of the bag. Test yourself. If you hit a still bag square in the middle, you will not hurt your wrist, now start hitting a moving bag coming from different angles. This is where you hurt your wrists. Why? Well it is usually because when your fists land on the target it is not at the appropriate angle.
Also there are exercises you could do to strengthen your wrists without just hoping they will get conditioned.
Like I said, hitting odd objects at different angles is good for practicing any and all strikes, because you cant really perdict how a fight is going to happen, or what angle you will strike at. However, if I attack first, it will be with a Straight Lead punch to the nose. Hooks are a little different, you have to hit at a perfect angle to make it effective and safe for you... It would be very bad if you broke your right hand in a fight, right off the bat. Its probally true that you could break/sprain your wrist while palm striking, but its a larger joint then say a finger or knuckle.
as some one mentioned here part of training is conditioning... for thewrist you can use dumb bells either holding them palm up or down , or alternatively. suport your fore arms on your knees while sitting down and flex your wrist up and down. this will strenghen your wrist for impact. do closed fists push ups to strenghen both your knucles and wrist. for the vertical punch do them with your elbows in, forhook punch elbows out. (I hope you get the picture). also the wing chun wall bag wich sijo Bruce Lee used extensively, has an advantage over the hanging bag, that is that the hanging bag disipates your power as it swings back or spins (usually spining is a sighn of not hitting the bag squarely). the wall bag does not move away from you , so power can be developed at a greater pace. although if the surface is canvas you will get skinned, especially when you dont hit straight. thats why the chinese use Dit Da jow to cure rapidly and help you continue with your progresive training.(usually people tend to stop hitting the bag to allow curing of the skin, but then lose the power they were training to build). somebags come with a vinyl cover to avoid skinning, you can also place a piece of vinyl over the bag, or use light weight bag gloves. remember training is a progresive thing , you should not go and punch wildly on the bag the first day, this is what usually causes injuies. take your time as cordination will add speed and eventually power, while conditioning.
This message has been edited by gv_wingchunpr on Nov 19, 2004 2:38 PM
I have very strong hands and wrists from using hand tools, 8 hours a day, 5 days a week on top of my martial arts training. I don't think it's a lack of conditioning, in my case... its just the way the human body is made.
Once you hook punched these objects, try hooking with your palm, you will feel a difference. You will also notice that your Hook Punch isnt 100% accurate as you like it to be and you will hit these objects below your knuckles, and that hurts the most! Pain is a great teacher! Evil smile Also, I don't want to wreck your learning experience, and hand this info on a silver platter, but you will learn how to adjust your Palm Hook for better speed and power, even more so then a punch... plus, you will hit even harder, when you find out there is no pain involved. I call it, the One Inch Palm Hook.